Monday, March 21, 2011

Monday

Here's the update from FWS:

March 21
Over the weekend, we were able to confirm the presence of a third adult eagle near the nest, and we are almost certain that it is a breeding age female.  Typically, the presence of a new female means she is competing with the established pair of eagles for the current nest.  Nest competition is a common occurrence in areas with healthy eagle populations, meaning the total population of eagles near NCTC has likely increased in recent years. 

We have also confirmed multiple sightings of the male eagle who is part of the established breeding pair.  The male does not appear to be injured, and appears to be in good health.  The eaglet which hatched on March 17th has died and the remaining egg is not likely to hatch given that it is not being regularly incubated by the parents. 

We do have biologists on staff here at NCTC who have been offering their expert assessments of the situation. In addition, our land manager has been communicating with another raptor biologist based in our Chesapeake Bay field office.  There is general agreement among our biologists that if the new female eagle is successful in chasing off the current female, the new female will then need to recruit a male to join her.  However, it is likely too late in the nesting season for success in laying, incubating and hatching any new eggs.

You may wonder why there is competition over this nest - and there are several potential factors.  Eagles prefer to nest in the tops of large trees located near rivers, lakes, and other wetlands.  The NCTC nest is located very close to the Potomac River, which is a plentiful source of fish for nesting eagles to hunt.  In addition, eagle nests represent a considerable investment of effort to construct:  they can be up to 10 feet in diameter and weigh up to 2,000 lbs.  And finally, as mentioned above, nest competition frequently occurs in areas with a significant eagle population.
All I can add to this is to thank you for your concern, passion and understanding that intervention in this episode was not the right thing to do.  Things don't always work out the way we'd like in nature, but I think we would all agree that we have gotten a rare glimpse, these past few days, into the world of bald eagles that most people do not see or will ever know about.  The fact that we have competition such as this is speaks well for the recovery of the Bald Eagle, a species that was nearly extinct fifty years ago. 

New thread.

1,077 comments:

1 – 200 of 1077   Newer›   Newest»
Mema Jo said...

I'll waste no time in Saying
Thank you Steve as we had just hit
1400 comments Out all time record.

I now will take time for Steve's update.

Eagle-Eyed Shar said...

Thanks Steve and I hope you have patience with us as our emotions run high around here. This is a rare glimpse that I think I could have lived without.

Robyn said...

Thank goodness it was getting difficult navigating over there :)

Harbinger said...

Thanks for the new thread! Sunday's must be a record number of comments.

paula eagleholic said...

Thanks for the update, new thread and zooming out the cam.

We will wait and see what happens with our pair. We learn something new everyday. Webcams can certainly aid in our quest for new knowledge in the life of an eagle.

Jo, can you please repost the yahoo group link over here. Thanks!

Mema Jo said...

I know that we all agree that we have been humbled by this learning experience and appreciate the ability to be part of it because of our cam.

Eagle-Eyed's Sissy said...

Thanks Steve. I know you are right about all that but I could have lived forever without catching this glimpse!!


Lord, one of Lily's cubs is raising Cain!! Squalling like Hope used to do!!

Mema Jo said...

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/eaglet_momsters/

Photos are up from John and Scott.

New members please enter the STATE if not the city/state where you reside.
Thank you.

Mema Jo said...

Thank you Harbingerdc for the Call over.

paula eagleholic said...

Eagle in the nest.

Eagle-Eyed's Sissy said...

Is that Lib? It looks like him!!

Eagle-Eyed's Sissy said...

Probably just because the zoom is gone, but ??

paula eagleholic said...

It's Belle

Mema Jo said...

Time for me to go to FB and find
out what is going on.......

Anyone over there just go for
Jo Last name with an L
Pic in a green shirt........

Eagle-Eyed's Sissy said...

No, I reckon that's our precious Belle.

Anonymous said...

In order to retain this nest, do Belle & Liberty have to stay close to it for the remainder of the year even though they have no babies to raise?

Mema Jo said...

My heart goes out to Belle (emotion)

Eagle-Eyed Shar said...

Washington intruder was Monica.

signgirl said...

Is there a FB page. If so how do I go to it!

Eagle-Eyed Shar said...

Thank God there aren't as many eagles as there are say, cowbirds, cause we would have a mess all the time.

Lolly said...

There was a fb page, but it has been discontinued. Oh, it may still be there but Pam said she was going to discontinue it. We have this blog and did not have time for a fb page too. However, a lot of us do have our own fb pages.

wvgal_dana said...

Thanks Steve for posting on the new thread enter page and thanks for the new thread. We really needed a new on. Thank you for pulling back the zoom at the nest. Have a good day ( :

Lolly said...

Hi Belle!!!! Bless you...eat a lot of fish, build up your strenth and show that hussy who is on first!

Scott, love the pictures. They are fantastic!

Paula, where were you all parked to view the nest? Of course I am not going (lol) just curious.

Lolly said...

Man, I am getting tired of refreshing.

Gotta run....have doctors appointment. Yikes, I am late!

Judie said...

Thank you for the new thread, Steve and for the update.

Lynn, I missed your comments regarding George and Martha. Sorry for the repeat. Hey,Shar. Forgot the intruder was Monica. Thanks for remembering.

Okay, really am going to go back to work -- after I check Lily, Hope and the babes.

wvgal_dana said...

Belle really calling out !! Hear something above nest...probably Trudy.

paula eagleholic said...

Belle alarm calling, and a big clunk. Looks like Trudy is above the nest.

Robyn said...

Intruder is back, cam moved and sounded like she landed on or near it, belle sounds mad...

paula eagleholic said...

And off she went at the noon position...

signgirl said...

Thanks Lolly for the info. I just want all the new info I can get without watching the cam. I must admit my curiosity is getting the best of me. i just asked about FB cause I'm hooked on it too. I have been posting about the Shepardstown eagles to my sister-in- law.

Robyn said...

Mom left her charger at home, she had me calling her with daily reports now her phone is dying and can't make contact, I am sure she is going crazy with wonder about Belle and Lib, got some info to but that was before I read todays posts. They wont be home until Wednesday.

wvgal_dana said...

Paula that was strange how Belle stood for awhile where Liberty usually stands. Then she took off like you said.

Tree shaking....

turtledove said...

Why can't the two of them band together and drive this inturder off? Two to one, and now there are no babies to get caught in the crossfire. I can't make sense of this, as I can't make sense of why it took Belle about 5 minutes to get a fish yesterday when she set her mind to it and why it took 3 days for that to happen. I'm having a hard time thinking like an eagle!

Eagle-Eyed Shar said...

mzlizza, there is a Facebook page, NCTC Eagle Cam but you will probably find more info here. I am on there, find me and friend me.

Eagle-Eyed's Sissy said...

Well friends, I am going to fold clothes and piddle around until time to go get Mattie from school. I am lurking around so holler if anything exciting happens!

wvgal_dana said...

@Scott beautiful, awesome pictures

Oh an your going to come again with a "bigger lens" WOW ...can' wait to see those pictures...great photography.

wvgal_dana said...

turtledove What is your first name and area you are from? ty

wvgal_dana said...

No Hedgie-Lynn that is not Carol that is an old timer with us..that Gene honks at. This is a different Carol.

Scott said...

@wvgal_dana Thanks...yes, I have a few baseball games to shoot and a beginner photography workshop that I'm teaching, so I'm renting something larger for those purposes. While its here, why not..

Bob In Frederick said...

Dana, where/how do I find the "awesome pictures" of Scott's that you referred to?

aKuna Kumara said...

Thank You Steve your informed post are wonderful and greatly appreciated.
Nature is not always how humans want to see it, but none the less beautiful in it's own way when we accept and understand the physical is only an extension of ALL which is eternal

Robyn said...

Someone just landed near cam...

Anonymous said...

Hello Folks. I am a "noob" here but wanted to say thank you for being so informative and above all, kind to one another through all of the sadness of the past few days.

I have watched and read quietly (I didn't want to seem like a "Trudy" to the forum lol)but have run the full range of emotions with all of you.

I live in North Idaho about 5 minutes from Lake Coeur d'Alene. Every February for the past 33 years I have had the pleasure of watching the eagles that come here to Beauty Bay to fish, etc. It is a sight to behold up close.

My niece just a couple of weeks ago got me onto live cams. (I lead such a sheltered life lol)I have spent hours along with all of you, watching Belle and the nest. My tears fell with all of yours, believe me.

It has been a sad few days indeed but I have hope for this couple. I want to see Belle get strong and Lib step up, and run this intruder off. I will be following them for a long time to come.

Thank you to all of you that spent hours on the ground, watching and keeping us posted. I so appreciated that. Thank you too for all of the information and pictures.

mzlizza said...

Sharon, FB friend request sent. Thank you!

movin said...

lINK to Scott's Pics:

SCOTT'S PICS

C(°Ù¿°)D Jim

Eagle-Eyed Shar said...

Welcome Trish and we would never consider you as "Trudy", unless of course you came on here being ugly to us, then maybe! :)

Mema Jo said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mema Jo said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bob In Frederick said...

Thanks "movin" ..........

Eagle-Eyed Shar said...

I am hearing hollering.

Donnie said...

Trudy is making house now!

Donnie said...

That Hussy!

Eagle-Eyed Shar said...

Belle is in the nest moving sticks.

Lynne2 said...

GET OUT TURDY

Eagle-Eyed Shar said...

Yes it is that witch with a B. Get the heck out!

Lynne2 said...

GET OFF OF THE NEST CUP

Donnie said...

She is uncovering the egg and Paddy

FuzzleMT said...

THAT IS THE INTRUDER!!!!!!!!!!!!

IrisF said...

"If that is Trudy, she doesn't look as big as she did perched above the nest...or is it just my eyes?

hedgie said...

TRUDY.....get out. She has oncovered the egg cup. DIRTY bird.

Donnie said...

I wish you could hear what I'm saying right now!...

IrisF said...

Belle, come smack this HUSSY for messin with your nest

hedgie said...

She was doing some stick placement before she turned to egg cup. ARGH!

Lynne2 said...

where is BELLE????

Eagle-Eyed Shar said...

Okay, I really need to be praying for this fricking bird.

Judie said...

Scott, lovely pictures. Thank you.

hedgie said...

Her head is much more narrow than Belle's or Lib's. And, of course, the dark spots are there.
Leave that alone, you witch.

Mema Jo said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Lynne2 said...

NO GET OUT OF THERR

Robyn said...

wth is she doing in that nest and uncovering the egg cup

Mema Jo said...

Oh my my my !
Get out of there........

Lynne2 said...

I hear Belle, HURRY

paula eagleholic said...

OMG

Lynne2 said...

NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

hedgie said...

DON'T WATCH.............

Robyn said...

Ugh, poor Belle, she better get down there and NOW

Eagle-Eyed Shar said...

Sweet God, she has pulled that baby out!

movin said...

Belle just checked for challengers in the area and found none.

Now she's uncovered the egg. Maybe she only covered it temporarily and is still hoping to hatch it...

C(°Ù¿°)D Jim

Carolyn said...

I need to go to the nest and shoot that Trudy!

hedgie said...

Son of a b--------just not right.

Just Vicky said...

I can't believe what I am seeing!

Donnie said...

Urrrg!!!

FuzzleMT said...

I cannot watch -

hedgie said...

Where are Belle and Lib??????

IrisF said...

This I can't watch!!!

I must go get a study lesson ready for tomorrow...BBL

Robyn said...

Hate to say it but Belle needs to land on her back and start mauling...

Eagle-Eyed Shar said...

And just when we thought it couldn't get any worse.

Carolyn said...

I really would not shoot her but I would love to get her out of the nest now!!!!!!!

paula eagleholic said...

Yea you B, that's the chick you killed.

IrisF said...

Where the heck is BELLE???

floralgirl said...

wow how horrible. Come back Belle

Robyn said...

Jim that is the intruder

Mema Jo said...

Ipray this doesn't mean that Belle has lost her nest......

NCSuzan said...

Trudy has some nerve.

Robyn said...

Where the heck is Belle, typing this politely is very unbecoming of me in a situation like this...

wvgal_dana said...

This female intruder is crazy!!!

She is trying to force Belle to come in to her. Trudy wants a BIG FIGHT!!!

Eagle-Eyed Shar said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Lynne2 said...

Belle just landed i thing

wvgal_dana said...

Belle landed in tree get ready

floralgirl said...

Sounded like someone landed in the tree

Robyn said...

Belle is right there, she can't let her stay in nest too long or it may get real ugly between the girls if Belle didn't give up

Donnie said...

HUSSY... My grandmas favorite word in the world...
Look out HUSSY,

Lynne2 said...

BUH BYE

Eagle-Eyed Shar said...

Okay, I removed my post but at least I got to say it.

signgirl said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mema Jo said...

My sound has gone crazy........

Well Lynne You warned us about things
like this.........

Donnie said...

I was saying worse Sharon

Donnie said...

Whoopie!

floralgirl said...

Here's Belle

hedgie said...

Belle ot Lib? Back side only.....

wvgal_dana said...

I can't believe when intruder female Trudy was doing this that Belle didn't fly into nest an attack her????????

Boy nature sure is confusing???

Belle has arrived in nest.

NCSuzan said...

Hope that is some of Trudy in Belle's beakl!

paula eagleholic said...

What I wouldn't give to be there today to see the off cam interaction.

Belle is back

MicheleB said...

Belle's back. Is that Hussy's feather in her beak?

movin said...

I think this one is Belle. What do you think?

C(°Ù¿°)D Jim

hedgie said...

Something white on left side of beak.....can't tell what it is....

Robyn said...

Belle has a small down feather in her nostril, maybe she got into it with the intruder

hedgie said...

Feather, maybe?

Mema Jo said...

I have to leave to ......

That Belle and she has a feather
in her beak......She got Trudy good
Anger Anger Revenge Revenge


Pick up ggd at bus stop
I pray a video was captured

Eagle-Eyed Shar said...

I think she was trying to put her back in place.

MicheleB said...

I'm assuming Belle, but in reality, I'm not sure I've seen Liberty since before the egg hatched & I'm a newbie, so not sure I'd tell the difference.

paula eagleholic said...

Hope so too, Suzan

Robyn said...

It is actually in her beak partally, I bet Belle attacked her

wvgal_dana said...

Now I wish someone was there watching this so we knew if they fought after Trudy left nest this time??????

IrisF said...

Does anyone think Belle is much smaller than that "OTHER BIRD"?

signgirl said...

Oh that dirty girl. She just won't give up. Glad to see Belle back. I just have to watch

MicheleB said...

We need a 2nd cam, huh?

I'm worried for Belle if Trudy is bigger than her.

hedgie said...

I swear it looks like a chip in his beak........

Lynne2 said...

I think so....Belle has a feather stuck in her right nostril

Donnie said...

get her !!

paula eagleholic said...

Sounds like Trudy just landed...

hedgie said...

None of this is looking good to me......

Robyn said...

MicheleB did you get my mag before about Cranberry Lake?

wvgal_dana said...

OH YES THIS INTRUDING FEMALE IS MUCH LARGER THAN BELLE

MicheleB said...

Robyn - no I missed that.

Liz said...

I was on the old thread. This is what I wrote: Trudy landed in nest, rearrange some sticks, stood around as is surprised no one was challenging her. Then she uncovered the grave, then gently pulled chick out of grave as if to see if it was still alive. Then after some minutes she backed away, like she didn't know what to do. Then she flew off, leaving the grave uncovered.

Robyn said...

errr that was msg

FuzzleMT said...

probably wishful thinking, but I think Belle looks thicker and broader - that intruder (can't say that name given her anymore!) is thinner

hedgie said...

Thanks, Shar-----right you are about Monica (as in Lewinsky!).

Robyn said...

I saw you mentioned you wre from Newton, I spent many summers up in Cranberry Lake at my Aunt and Uncles lakehouse, and I love that area

Eagle-Eyed Shar said...

Now that is about a slap in the face, don't ya think?

Robyn said...

I think Belle looks thicker also but the intruder was large

movin said...

Boy, we had some heavy rain downpours and some awesome THUNDER CLAPS last night in So Cal.

More rain forecast off and on for the next week, I think.

C(°Ù¿°)D Jim

hedgie said...

Pam left the FB page up at someone's request.

Robyn said...

JIm we did here too, one thunderclap sounded like it lasted 5 min even my daughter was like OH WOW that was long lol

Lynne2 said...

I think this will help explain why the Juvie eagle is larger than Belle....or at least appears to be

Scroll down to juvie eagle section

Juvie Eagles, why the appear larger

wvgal_dana said...

When I was at the nest on Saturday and I'm sure Paula an them. That was at nest on Sunday can agree with me that the female intruder is larger/bigger than Belle.

Liz said...

I can't tell if it's Belle or Lib, but adult has been at nest looking at uncovered grave for some minutes.

Eagle-Eyed Shar said...

She is burying Paddy again and so gentle. This is just too much to bear.

Lynne2 said...

Sorry you got lost on the old thread Liz...happens to all of us!

floralgirl said...

The intruder does look very large, but she looks unkempt if that makes sense, like her feathers aren't sleek yet, maybe that's why she looks so big.

hedgie said...

Okay, beak looks clean now----unless there was a switch while I was on phone. Reburial in progress, I believe.

Christine said...

I starting wonder if Trudy is a first time mama who lost here baby(s)? She seems more interested in the egg/POJ than anything else.

wvgal_dana said...

Yes Hedgie-Lynn reburial is taking place at this time.

Robyn said...

I actually think it is quite a learning experience to see such tenderness from our raptors.

wvgal_dana said...

Never Never Never Let anyone tell me that eagles don't have feelings!!! tears

paula eagleholic said...

That feather probably came off while she was digging in the fluff.

wvgal_dana said...

Trudy the intruder was not even bothered about the fish. She went directly to the burial site.

Lynne2 said...

here are some pictures as well

Eagels from one to five years old

Megan mentioned the "unkempt" look, an that is true.

wvgal_dana said...

As I watch Belle it is like she is thinking.

When I once buried my animal pretty deep. Something uncovered it. I then started thinking, "should I try to rebury it here agan?" I did and deeper I dug, way way deep and she was never uncovered again.

So I wonder what Belle is thinking??

IrisF said...

WV_Dana, I'm just judging by how they both looked when approximately in the same place on the nest. The intruder's head is definitely narrower then Belle's.

Do eagles like some animals poof themselves up to appear larger to their enemies?

Liz said...

Adult mate started the reburial but has not finished it. Just standing there watching.

Unknown said...

Help me, I'm confused. Over at the Hancock forum they said it was Liberty in the nest earlier. They have pics posted. Can someone check it out?

Serena

MicheleB said...

Robyn - maybe another Michele? I'm from Harrisville, WV currently. Originally from St. Albans, WV.

movin said...

Hmmmm. I don't know if you realize it, I was just reading it's the first day of Spring today.

C(°Ù¿°)D Jim

IrisF said...

The intruder definitely looked huge in Scott's photos,(great photos Scott) but, remember how Belle puffes herself up sometimes?

I know I'm grasping at straws!!!!

Eagle-Eyed Shar said...

It was not Lib, it was the intruder. She had the dark on her head.

Robyn said...

I sit corrected Michele it was Maria who mentioned she was from Newton

Lynne2 said...

earlier, Christopher posted a question at 1:30...sorry Christopher, there are so many posts happening right now sometimes we miss. Just post again!

Can anyone answer that question for him?

wvgal_dana said...

Iris Click on the comment above at 2:37pm

paula eagleholic said...

They do puff up.

Lib hasn't been on the nest today.

floralgirl said...

This is what ch services is talking about- a screen capture from earlier today posted on the Hancock forum- see for yourself -sorry, no time for link-
http://www.hancockwildlife.org/forum/viewtopic.php?showtopic=111358&mode=&show=15&page=260

MicheleB said...

My understanding is that they stay pretty close to the nest all year round regardless. Correct me if I'm wrong.....

Robyn said...

Lynne, thanks, do you think she came from the north due to her size?

Lynne2 said...

turtledove, just read your post....

we are having trouble thinking like an eagle, too. Much of this makes no sense to us at all. We watch, we learn, we get more confused.

We do know that in the fight for territory/nest, it's the female's job.

paula eagleholic said...

@Christopher....Belle and Lib are here throughout the year...I'm not sure they would defend it over the summer, when there are no eaglets around...but most nesting building occurs in the late fall...and nest intrusions around nesting time. I would say if they want to keep it right now, they need to defend it right now.

Lynne2 said...

No Robyn, I think she simply looks bigger because of the way the feathers grow. As she molts into her 5th year, she'll be very close in size to Belle.

Unknown said...

Floralgirl, yes. That's the picture I was talking about, especially the close up. I'm just trying to teach myself the differences between the two. In the picture, the head looks a lot leaner?

Serena

wvgal_dana said...

Christopher Belle and Liberty do not migrate so they are always around this nest. They don't migrate due to the river does not freeze fully over.

I am sorry about the person that ask where to find Scott's picture. I am glad someone posted a link for that person.

So much is going on at this site...sorry I/we are slow is answering sometimes.

Lynne2 said...

so they think that was Lib on the nest earlier??? I must tell you, now that the cam is zoomed back out, my ID skills are poor

Scott said...

Thanks all....for those looking for the link to the photos it is http://turnmeyer.smugmug.com/Photography and then look in the Rapture gallery. PHotos 32 thru 51 are of the NCTC nest. The eagle outside of the nest is Trudy.

WV sUSAn said...

Hi everybody. Could see still cam when Trudy flew to the nest. I could see her but hard to tell the action. Did she just check out Paddy and egg like just curious? I saved some images and it didn't appear that things were moved. Not even the fish.

movin said...

The Hancock pics are very fuzzy, but I watched this episode on our live feed, and there is no question it was Trudy.

By the way I don't think Trudy is much bigger or much smaller than Belle.

Also, the Norfolk youngster that challenged three years ago WAS much larger than the resident female, but as soon as the resident got fed up to strength, the intruder disappeared. I think Belle will keep her territory.

C(°Ù¿°)D Jim

IrisF said...

CH Services, I honestly think that is Belle, look at the bent middle toe/talon...and the uneveness of her collar..Just my opinion...Paula? Dana?

Lynne2 said...

Link to Megan's Hancock webpage RE; Lib? in case you missed it since it wasn't blue

Hancock Forum pictures, Lib??

Lynne2 said...

Jim, I think these pics of Lib??? were taken just after Trudy left the nest. We think it was Belle. They think it is Lib. Probably some confusion because cam is now zoomed out.

Eagle-Eyed Shar said...

wvsUSAn - Trudy stepped on the egg cup and kept going. Then she went back to the egg cup and dug Paddy up and made several attempts to pull her out of the little grave. She may have been checking to see if Paddy was alive but who knows. I know I sure don't.

floralgirl said...

Jim we fully realize Trudy was in the nest, people are questioning if Lib was there today. I look at those screen grabs and see belle

Lynne2 said...

Scott, great pics!

John, yours too, and wow a juvie eagle AND a RS hawk (my fav) too!

WV sUSAn said...

Thanks for posting the link about the eagle plumage, Lynne2. Was going to say I agree thats why she looks bigger than Belle.

What a learning experience for us all

paula eagleholic said...

RE:Hancock pics

Looking back at the time of that I do have to say my intial reaction was that is was Lib. But then I changed my mind to Belle. I was double checking the beak, and thought I saw the mark on the beak.

I'll have to look at the pictures further and see if I have video as well.

I don't think I was expecting him on the nest.

IrisF said...

WV_sUSAn - you are right, and much of it I never had any intention to learn... We just never know what we will be learning do we?

Robyn said...

Paula the down on Belle's beak was there as soon as she returned to nest, maybe some contact with intuder?

Scott said...

Sorry...shorter link now

home.vaphoto.com

hedgie said...

I really thought it was Lib who came in after Trudy.....the feather was on the beak...and the right side nares looked normal. What view I got, the collar looked even. No inverted V.

WV sUSAn said...

Thanks so much Liz and Lynne2. That is just how it appeared on still. Curious and not even a thief. My gosh, I can't stop watching. Ok back to work. Will sneak back later, eagle peeps.

signgirl said...

This is such a learning experience. This is nature uncut. Hard as it is to watch. I have learned from this experience through this blog. I am so appreciate of my new friends here sharing their insights!

Eagle-Eyed Shar said...

Now I have to say that in 2006 most of us on here were absolutely clueless about what was going on and it was a real learning experience for us. But this stuff happening now? No words!

IrisF said...

AMEN Sharon

floralgirl said...

If you go to the next page on that forum, ther'es a close up view of the eagle.

«Oldest ‹Older   1 – 200 of 1077   Newer› Newest»

11 12 24 pm solo scout

1159 1204 12:15 we leave at 12:21 12:21we return w stick left at 1221 in the original Nest one arrives well12 23 gone from the original ...