Thursday, June 05, 2008

Video of Fledge 2


Watch the reaction of the littlest eaglet.

170 comments:

NatureNut said...

Oh Thank You Steve. I could watch that over & over!
I guess in human terms, Tiny might be a little lonely. But there must be family around.

wvgal_dana said...

Thanks Steven for the new thread...wow lots to comment on today. With fledging going on.

paula eagleholic said...

Yes, Steve, the look is certainly priceless! Like "Hey, she left me all alone! Where did she go?"

deb said...

Thanks, Steven. Wonderful video and it is so clear, what beautiful wings!

NatureNut said...

Before I left at about 11AM, adult brought some food & spent a lot of time in the nest w/Tiny.There was food, but he didn't eat. It was almost as if she was keeping him company.(There I go getting human again!)
Just heard some wing rustling.

wvgal_dana said...

Hee hee Nature it happens to us all at one time or another in watching the eagles ( :

deb said...

I don't have a picture, anyone else??

paula eagleholic said...

Still good here, Deb

deb said...

I restarted and everything, sound, but no picture.

wvgal_dana said...

Deb all is good here sound & pic

deb said...

Just got my picture back!!

NatureNut said...

Mini-monumental occasion around here today----must have had a house wren hatching!Finally, Mom TOOK food into birdhouse! They fledged 3 last year--last one in early July.Last year was first time a male got a lady friend to share his pad. For 3 previous years, he built nests,invited the girls to visit & none stayed.Guess they didn't like his decorating. I have heard they build dummy nests sometimes.

wvgal_dana said...

Jo wherever you are you have mail..

MITS said...

97° here now:(

MITS said...

BBIALW

MITS said...

I've got to run, can someone go get Jim, he is on this mornings' blog

floralgirl said...

Wow- look what I missed- only one left in the nest. Thanks for the videos, glad to see it even if I missed the live action. Our power just came back on. Power crew was great, they took care to not do any more damage to gardens than the storm had done. Worse storm I have ever been thru, and I drove thru it, it was raining trees and branches. Now begins the cleanup of the house and then the yard. lol..who tracked all this dirt in here??

paula eagleholic said...

I think Tiny is napping...

paula eagleholic said...

Darn eaglets, they'll make a liar out of ya every time....just stretched wings.

Megan, good to see you alive and kicking :)

paula eagleholic said...

I yelled at him, Mits...

hedgie said...

Here's a site w/ some great eagle video from Alaska. The one called 'Eagles are just pretty vultures' is long, but at about the 3 min. mark, wonderful close-up view of adult!! Copy, paste, Enjoy.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIzUasmrSto&feature=rela

NatureNut said...

Boy, Tiny did wingercises all over the nest. Lots of room.

Megan, glad to hear you're doing OK. They've been warning people around here to not go near any downed wires. Lots of kids out of school biking around.

paula eagleholic said...

Steve just posted a pretty pic of Tiny's big wings on the front page of the blog.

Toni said...

Hi Everyone!
First of all, I want to say thank you, Steve for posting the video on the blog, I missed both fledges when they happened.
It's been such a great experience watching the eaglets hatch and grow. My family and I have enjoyed it a lot.
I hope everyone is doing alright over there where the storms were happening.

deb said...

Megan, so good to hear from you! I am glad the power company took extra care of your gardens. Is the town helping in clean-up, or is everyone in the same boat as you are??

NatureNut said...

Hi, Toni. Good to see you. How exciting is this?

movin said...

Thanks, Norma,

If it wasn't for you and Mits, I'd still be on that thread sometime next week.

Jim

Toni said...

This is great! I missed it in 2006, when we first heard about it, so, this is the first time we get to see Lib and Belle in action, they are such good parents. :)

movin said...

Not only was Little Bit's look one of priceless surprise, but you could tell where the Middle Un's flight took him and where he landed.

I wonder if he'll be able to 'go' tomorrow.

Jim

paula eagleholic said...

Jim - Maybe he will wait till Saturday when we are all there! That would be cool!

Lolly said...

What's up? I have sound but no picture!!!!!!

NatureNut said...

I missed '06 fledge too somehow? DUH! Have been glued this year to the detriment of my poor house!
I have company coming tomorrow, but this IS more important. LOL

NatureNut said...

Lolly, my cam's OK. How are you?
Are all 3 going to fledge in hatching order? So far 2 have!That would put Tiny at Sunday! Hope all of you will get to see someone in the nest or nearby. Remember, "Film at 11" when you return!

Lolly said...

well, drat! Wonder what's wrong???

No, I am NOT getting better fast.COL I am miserable and hating it!!!!

Tiny better not fledge when I am getting no picture. However, I have missed the other two. Just watch the videos.

Lolly said...

Is that the plan. To be at the nest at 11? That will be 10 my time.

MITS said...

ok, I'm back, thanks for getting Jim, where he was supposed to be.....going to try to put cam back up...

paula eagleholic said...

Looks like Teddy is still hanging out in the Delta nest. Guess he's been a good boy so far..hasn't been tossed out, just about!

Lolly said...

Where's Jo? I use media player, wonder how hers is doing?

Lolly said...

One of the eaglets has returned to the OK nest. The wind is fierce and it is hunkered down in the nest. Wind is fierce here too!

paula eagleholic said...

Heading out to grab a bite before I hit the hairdressers - I'm long overdue!

See ya'll later tonight!

MITS said...

well peachy, I have sound, but no pic....

floralgirl said...

Well darn, sorry, I have pic and sound. Tiny is perched at the far end of nest.

Lolly said...

Mits, I am sorry you have no picture, but at the same time relieved that someone other than me is having trouble. I thought I was the only one!!!!!

Do you use RP or media player?

MITS said...

well, what did I do to get kicked off:(:(

Lolly said...

MEGAN, welcome back. Wish I lived closer....wish I felt better....I would march over and help with the clean up! I am so sorry things got messed up!

MITS said...

I use RP, Lolly.

Lolly said...

Well, I was thinking that was it. Guess not. I have sound but no picture. Says it is playing, but its n-o-t!!!!!!!!

glo said...

sound but no picture DRATS!!!

floralgirl said...

Thanks for all the concern, everybody. Things are a mess here, but we are lucky. Many houses in our area have major damage, some unrepairable. Weather service reps are in Sharpsburg assessing damage to see if it was a tornado or just straight line winds. Hoping generator use earlier saved our food and my 2 fridges full of peonies. Haven't opened any fridge yet, trying to get them nice and cool before I look.

floralgirl said...

Adult just flew in with food- eaglet mantling it- adult left.

MITS said...

i can hear it eating....crunch, crunch

NatureNut said...

I hear lots of crunching noises, but no movement in nest??? Anybody see anything going on? Maybe my pic is frozen--showing Tiny back of nest.

Bird Girl said...

If you're having trouble with the live feed, there is an update available for RP, make sure you download and install it.

If it still isn't working, close your player, go back to the page with the link on it and try reloading it that way, instead of pulling it up from your own bookmark.

What is that thing on top the big sticks at 7 o'clock in the nest?

Wasn't the little one, born on St Patty's Day, much later to hatch? I would think he would be several days away from fledging, just because he came into the world so much later?

Floralgirl, I'm so glad you came thru ok. Sorry about all your plants :(

NatureNut said...

Thx, you answered my ???

wvgal_dana said...

Megan is does my heart good to see you on this blog.
So glad power company was careful.

Jim how did you get caught up in the other blog??? So glad you got to this one.

bbl fixing dinner

Bird Girl said...

Tiny seems to be very intently messing with something at 6 o'clock inthe nest

MITS said...

YES, BG, Tiny was born the 17th of March, 3 days later than Middy

floralgirl said...

Thanks- don't worry about me- I'll survive. Lots of plants that had just been planted literally washed away, I spent an hour this morning rounding them up and trying to replant them. Some of the taller peremmials look bad and my hydrangea is a wreck, but that's how it goes when you farm, you deal with what mother nature throws at ya. I am down but not out....

Bird Girl said...

My great-grandparents farmed sugar beets in Idaho, I come from a very long line of farmers. I'm the first in my family to be raised in the city, actually! So, I've heard lots of farm stories, and been raised with 'farm mentality' I guess you could say.

NatureNut said...

I restarted my Player to unfreeze the pic & now I have NONE!!%@#*&^\ Sound, tho.

Robyn said...

Good evening,

Does anyone know where to bring an injured box turtle, it's shell is injured and it is off hours for the FWS.

magpie said...

Fog on the Minnesota Loon Cam.

http://www.mnbound.com/t-looncam.aspx

Going in for another 12-hour shift. Enjoyed reading all the updates and watching the videos. See a bunch of you on Saturday. Wish Everyone could be there. Safe Travels, all, and Take Care for Now.

Bird Girl said...

Robyn,

I wish I knew! I'm in Arizona!

Robyn said...

I placed it in a cardboard box, it wants to get away but it's shell doesn't look so great. Judgement call but if someone knows anthing I will look into another option...

Bird Girl said...

Robyn, where do you live? You might want to see if there is a herpetological society in your area, if game and fish isn't available...

MITS said...

ROBYN, look in the yellow pages for animal rehabilitators

Bird Girl said...

and i would put the box on a heating pad set on low, if you have one. they're cold blooded, have to get heat from their surroudings

Robyn said...

I'm in Martinsburg WV/ I am not sure what we have here. A few years ago I had to drive 45 miles for a vet for my birds.

Bird Girl said...

Oh, I wish there was a category for animal rehabbers in our yellow pages! LOL'

Robyn said...

Thanks Mits and Birdgirl. Birdgirl that looks like dolly

Bird Girl said...

I found this on the internet just now, don't know if it's valid or not:


West Martinsburg
Earthway, Inc. Derek Smith
304-264-4709

Bird Girl said...

It is Dolly! I just can't change the picture, she's too happy!

glo said...

Well I am going to totally reboot my computer and hope for a live cam with sound.

MITS said...

good luck, Glo, I have tried that,

Robyn said...

Invalid number. The temp is pretty warm currently. If I can't find out what to do will bring it to the edge of my property and let it go into the woods.

I will only kill it by keeping it and not knowing what to do.

Bird Girl said...

You might try this webpage, I don't know if the info is correct or not...

http://tinyurl.com/6zb5az

Bird Girl said...

Robyn, you may be saving it by keeping it confined...keeping it away from predators. Try offering it some food, if it's still warm. Info on what they eat:

"Wild turtles are omnivores and in will eat earthworms, snails, grubs, beetles, caterpillars, carrion, grasses, fallen fruit, berries, mushrooms and flowers. They will take a bite of anything that smells edible."

MITS said...

Robyn, you have mail

Bird Girl said...

Some fruits & veggies you can feed him:

"peaches figs tomatoes
nectarines mangoes bell pepper
apricots grapes peas
strawberries grapefruit squash
other berries oranges zucchini
prickly pear pads (no
spines)
plum
other melons* carrots asparagus
cherries cantelope* kale
apple* banana endive
pear* dandelions okra
greens -
varied mushrooms
mulberries
persimmons cherries blackberries
blueberries
* - no seeds"

Robyn said...

I read if it is injured do not feed I can't seem to reach anyone and we leave for the ocean in the morning. If I can't reach anyone I will need to let it go

Bird Girl said...

well we can't save every single animal we find. it's a hard decision to make, i certainly understand that.

don't let it ruin your trip tho. Nature does what she does.

MITS said...

Robyn, it is what it is.

Bird Girl said...

As a wildlife rehabber, I hate having to make the decision to let Nature take it's course. But it has to be done.

Bird Girl said...

gotta go now, still lots of unpacking to do! and have to get my hermit crabs set up again LOL

good luck Robyn, have a good trip...

everyone, take care!

Susan said...

In regard to the injured box turtle, there's a place near Winchester VA, (actually very close to Glengary) called Fern Wildlife Rescue. The number there is 1-540-888-7949 and the website is http://www.fernwildliferefuge.org/
The lady who runs the refuge should be able to help you. I was there just a couple of weeks ago with a duck that had been severely injured by a snapping turtle. Good luck.

MITS said...

Robyn, have you called a vet in your area?

Costume Lady said...

Helen, that has become one of my favorite expressions. "It is what it is". I think you hubby says that? It seems to suit so many circumstances. If I can't think of something proper to say, that is what I say!

MITS said...

that is good to know,pemaquid.Thanks for coming on and giving Robyn the info:)

MITS said...

my hubby is a very wise man:), and he has great faith, something I admire in him

Costume Lady said...

Robyn, I would turn it loose into the woods and let nature take it's course. Most animals heal very well on their own.

MITS said...

well the poor guy has to have faith to be married to me for sooooo long

MITS said...

sounds like good advice, Wanda

Costume Lady said...

We once had a Collie that wandered off and got hit by a car. We took her to the vet and he wanted to take her paw off because it was badly injured. We decided to bring her home and let her try to learn to use the paw. She dragged it for a very long time, but eventually learned to deal with it. She lived for many years with all 4 paws.

Robyn said...

No vets open now. I will try that number and see what happens otherwise Ms Turtle is going to the woods and hopefully she will be ok

Susan said...

In regard to the injured box turtle, there's a place in Winchester, VA, (it's actually near Glengary, WV) called Fern Wildlife Rescue. The woman who runs the facility is a certified wildlife rehabilitator and should be able to help you. The number there is 1-540-888-7949 and the website is
http://www.fernwildliferefuge.org/
I went there a couple of weeks ago myself with a duck that had been severely injured by a snapping turtle. Good luck.

Robyn said...

Thank you pemaquid, I have been trying that number the last 30 min, nothing yet.

normabyrd said...

PEMAQUID thanks for the info!!---
Glad you came on---nice meeting you!!!----lots of us live in your area!!!----Why not join us!!

deb said...

Is there an animal rescue center in Ocean City??

normabyrd said...

FORGIVE ME KIDS!!-----I get teary-eyed every time I see the news replay BOBBY KENNEDY'S death!!---Loved him!!----I know you all are too young to remember!!----Listen to his words!!--SORRY---won't mention him again today!!!---Back then---one thought there wasn't anything we couldn't do!!!

Costume Lady said...

Keep your eyes open!

Costume Lady said...

Tiny is getting up courage to jump and almost did. Gene says that eagle still has some CHICKEN in him. LOL

Costume Lady said...

FOOD! He's not going anywhere now.

normabyrd said...

WHOA!!---OUR 3rd CHICK is FLAPPY---& FLAPPY ---- those wings!!!

Costume Lady said...

He is FAMISHED!!

Mema Jo said...

Adult with our Tiny!!!

Nice fish I think and Tiny must have just seen it.......

Chirping is such an enjoyable sound

NatureNut said...

Got my cam back!
Big fish dinner--yum, yum!!

Mema Jo said...

Both Mom and Dad with Tiny

Wonder if he'll spend the night alone in the nest..........

Costume Lady said...

Tiny has never eaten so much. He is going to have a tummy ache tonight. Isn't that funny; Tiny wouldn't snatch the fish away from Belle, but snatched it away from Lib. Once again, Belle is the boss. She is really enjoying what Tiny didn't eat.

NatureNut said...

I'm so glad Mom & Dad came by--before that I thought Tiny needs a Teddy Bear! ;>))

Susan said...

I don't know how I ended up with two posts...one under pemaquid and the other under Susan. I was fumbling around trying to figure out how to get on the blog to help the lady with the injured box turtle.

I've spent many hours watching the eaglets over the past two months and actually got to see eaglet number 2 fledge this morning at 8:11am. I was thrilled!!! It has been difficult getting my windows cleaned today because I can't drag myself away from my computer and eaglet number 3!

Mema Jo said...

Something is flying around up there!

Costume Lady said...

Belle finished eating what she wanted and took off with the rest; probably to Pearl or Middy.

Mema Jo said...

Adult left nest
Tiny still at noon position.......

normabyrd said...

SUSAN!--aka---PEMAQUID!---You are COOL!!-----that's the kind of thing I do!!--

Mema Jo said...

Susan I want to be sure you know that a group of us are going over to the nest this Saturday... You would surely be invited! Then most of us go for an early dinner at the Clarion Inn there in Shepherdstown..
Let us know!

normabyrd said...

SUSAN we are going to go to see the nest Sat.---Would you like to join us??-----Will check with JO to see if it's too late!

normabyrd said...

THANKS JO---Didn't realize you were there!!!!

Costume Lady said...

Yes, SUSAN, anyone who loves birds and animals is welcome to our nest visit, especially if you are from Martinsburg! You will feel you are among friends after being with us for 5 minutes.

Mema Jo said...

lol That is the first time ever that I got to be one step in front of you, Norma!! Bring your cane Saturday...

And yes I remember our Bobby & really had such high hopes for him

Mema Jo said...

Tiny is positioned at noon in the nest
I hope he is not going to use that for his launch pad...
I hope he is going to wait for us this Saturday before he takes off...

Susan said...

Thanks for the invite, Mema Jo. I'd love to go but I already have plans for Saturday. My husband and I are in the Potomac Valley Audubon Society and they're having a picnic get-together Saturday at Yankauer Nature Preserve, followed by a program about raptors. Someone from the Maryland DNR is supposed to be there with live birds (injured/rehabilitated birds that can't be returned to the wild). I'll certainly take a raincheck though!

Mema Jo said...

Susan - go to this blog & see the fledging videos.......


Link to Fledging Videos

Mema Jo said...

Susan Your rain check date will be October 18th NCTC Open House
We'll see you & hubby then

Mema Jo said...

Now Tiny is down under the cam....

Maybe Spidey will keep him company
tonight

Mema Jo said...

Going to the Loo
Keep your eyes on Tiny
BRB

Susan said...

Thank you so much for the eagle link, Mema Jo! Incredible video!
I'll mark Oct. 18th on my calendar. I attend a few of the lectures at NCTC from time to time, but I've never been to their open house. I'm looking forward to it!

Mema Jo said...

I'm back

Tiny is certainly being entertained by everything around the nest.

Chirping sounds - more like a call
I sure hope his siblings don't entice him to join them yet....

glo said...

Oh Lordie Jo has gone to the Loo. Hmmm its gonna be a long watch perhaps but we have our assignment.

Mits it worked for me to reboot everything. I have my Real Player back.

glo said...

wb Jo well that was quick but then again I was busy outside and just saw your message.

Mema Jo said...

Weather at the nest: 76.8 °F Clear
Humidity: 93% Wind: 0.0 mph

Tonight
Mostly cloudy with scattered showers and thunderstorms this evening...then partly cloudy after midnight. Patchy fog after midnight. Lows in the upper 60s. South winds around 5 mph. Chance of rain 40 percent.

I think the thunderstorm may have passed us - I hope so.

Friday
Patchy fog in the morning. Mostly sunny. Highs in the lower 90s. Southwest winds 5 to 10 mph.

Mema Jo said...

GLO Has your weather calmed down?

Mema Jo said...

I did make it quick - I didn't like Tiny's restless nature.
Looks as though Tiny may be going to rest and I guess that is Spidey in the lower right!???

Mema Jo said...

Tiny looks like he has an Indian tribal robe on! His feathers have a great pattern.

Mema Jo said...

Going to leave for an hour or so..
doing more emails & paying bills!!!

MITS said...

OH NOOOOOOOO, JO, NOT THE LOO!!!!!!!!!! Two years back, one afternoon, Jo announced she was going to the "loo"...4 hours later we were still waitng for her:):) to come back, we thought she was stuck, or had fallen in.

Eagle-Eyed Sharon said...

Okay, I am at Thelma's and I forgot to blog the doctor's report. I will have surgery but don't have a date yet. Need to get things worked out with work, insurance, etc. It is all good though, might even get a tummy tuck in the process. Been needing this tummy tucked for a long time! :)

ceil said...

I remember that. They won't let you live it down Jo. Tiny does have a pretty design. Good night everyone.

ceil said...

I was just thinking about you Sharon. Thanks for letting us know. Good night.

MITS said...

that must be the new procedure, Sharon, have a hernia, get a tuck......I got some great docs up here in DC, if you want a 2nd opinion....Good night Ceil, see you and Mary Margaret tomorrow for our weekend at the nest

glo said...

Well MeMa Jo our weather is unsettled for the next several days but except for being hot and humid it is quiet right now.
Think it is supposed to stay that way all night.I went to bed with tornado watch last night. Second night this week. I hate that but oh well. Here we are and it isn't snowing anymore.
I am calling it a night though. I want to watch a movie.

floralgirl said...

Nite all- off to bed for me- really exhausted and tomorrow will have to get up early to get some work done before the heat sets in. Got to get the branches off the electric fence so we can turn it back on- garden is very vulnerable without it.

MITS said...

Good night, Megan, take care tomorrow in the heat....GOOD NIGHT EVERYONE

sunny said...

Hey gang. It looks like I've missed a lot of excitement the last couple of days. Have Pearl or Middy been back to the nest since their big adventures started?

paula eagleholic said...

Evening, all!

Finally home, going to work on the video, although I know Glo and Steve have posted one.

No eaglets returned yet?

paula eagleholic said...

That's a bummer...can't get into youtube!!

wvgal_dana said...

Robyn take the turtle to the place in Winchester. Turtle shells are not easy to heal when just turned loose.

NatureNut said...

Good Night to all who are hitting the hay;>)

Sunny, I have not read any reports about Pearl or Middy returning to nest. I thought they might for the night. Guess we will have to get Tiny a Teddy Bear.
Hi Susan, A lot of my colleagues are in Audubon Society. They do have splendid bird trips.Enjoy
Glo, are you in Illinois? Seems tornadoes everywhere. Terrific videos!
Good Luck Paula!

paula eagleholic said...

Sunny - They have been in the nest tree but not back in the nest yet!

paula eagleholic said...

Can anyone else access youtube, or is it just me?

Costume Lady said...

Loretta, Glo does live in Illinois. I forget just where, but the winters are very rough there. Not quite as bad as Deb's in South Dakota.

Costume Lady said...

Hi, Sunny. We are so hoping to see all three of our babies and their Parents on Saturday. I am sure there will be plenty of photos to post.

Costume Lady said...

You Tube plays alright for me, Paula. Don't know about recording on it though.

Costume Lady said...

GOOD NIGHT EVERYONE
SLEEP TIGHT
PRAYERS

paula eagleholic said...

Thanks Wanda. I am just trying to get there to load the video...

paula eagleholic said...

BBIALW

Mema Jo said...

Calling it another eggciting day!

Checking out nest before leaving - I know that Tiny is still lying down up at noon position. Not certain of what the Dark Spot is at 9:00. Perhaps
in the morning light we will be able to see.......

Good Night Eagle Buddies
Pleasant dreams & peaceful sleep
Prayers for all needs being said -

paula eagleholic said...

Good night, Jo!

Computer needed a restart, I'm good to go now! Had to redo a bunch of stuff last night and hadn't restarted computer with all the excitement this morning...

NatureNut said...

Will be shutting down soon.

Point to ponder--spoke w/good friend,park director, naturalist who left our area and is at a Park in Montgomery Co. w/large lake.We compared eagle nest stories and he asked if ours at Patuxent is in a sycamore tree!!!! It is!He thinks they like them because the tops are pretty clear and sometimes lose top branches!
Good Night to All & hope they have power & internet at work tomorrow!!

paula eagleholic said...

And in case you haven't seen it yet, here's my videos of Pearl and Middy fledging!

First Fledge at NCTC

Second Fledge at NCTC

movin said...

I loved the video clips of the fledgings, Paula.

The live feed is still working and I can see Little Un between the strands of Spidey's snare.

C(°ï®¡°)D

Jim

movin said...

GOOD NIGHT, EVERYBODY.

We are sure to see the last one fledge by the weekend. A very healthy nestful this year, they should do well.

C(°ï®¡°)D

Jim

Eagle-Eyed Sharon said...

Wow, Baby Littley is really taking advantage of all the room he has and is really practicing that wing flapping this morning.

Eagle-Eyed Sharon said...

Well, Baby Littley is looking up in the tree and being really loud so I am going to say at least 1 sibling is above him in the sycamore tree. Lib brought in a still flopping fish and then left. Littley hasn't started eating it yet. Not sure how talented he is about eating a still flopping fish.

Costume Lady said...

GOOD MORNING SHARON...
He is quit a bit behind his siblings. I hope he stays put a while longer until his survival skills develop more. I don't think he ever had the chance to get a whole fish all to himself. He will learn.

glo said...

new thread come on over

Costume Lady said...

I think Middy just came back home. She is showing Tiny how to eat the fish.

Costume Lady said...

My goodness, this is so exciting to see!! I think it is Middy because Pearl is much better at tearing apart a whole fish!

Costume Lady said...

Tiny is trying to take bites from the tail of the fish and Middy fussed at him and dragged the fish away.

Costume Lady said...

Oh, look right now at the Loon, you can see the baby on Mom's front right hand side.

Anne-Marie said...

good Morning, Any body home?

4/24/24 Bella/crow

The crow picked on something there to the right and it scared. It to make him go in the Bush. Scared a cat LOL I thought crows were tough LO...